1970 September 27 - Fillmore East, New York City VS 1971 November 15 - Carnegie Hall, New York City

upadated August 16 2005

1970 September 27 - Fillmore East, New York City programme (kindly by Tor)

[[click the pic to download the high res scans in a zip file via PANDO]]

1970 September 27 - Fillmore East, New York City ad and tickets from the net + pics from magazine

1971 November 15 - Carnegie Hall, New York City programme (Carnegie Hall/80th Annversary season) - from the Carnegie Hall Archives  (thanks to Tor)

[[click the pic to download the high res scans in a zip file via PANDO]]

Here's some page about a weird recording of which I'm trying you figure out the contents for years!

Let's start from what we know have been performed at the Fillmore East gig on September 27 1970 (2 gigs: one at 6:00pm and the other at 9:00pm)
The programme of the gig (kindly scanned by Tor) isn't of any help about it except for the fact it mentions a performance of AHM with Orchestra conducted by Peter Phillips.
We have some hints about the setlist from some press reports though, like on this Disc and Music Echo (early show) review about the Fillmore East 70.09.27 gig: ELECTRIC PINK FLOYD EMPLOY A CONDUCTOR! by Lisa Mehlman (also kindly transcribed by Tor)
"The Pink Floyd came to the Fillmore East last weekend with an incredible amount of equipment, and I think just a little bit more than the normal amount of nerve!
The first half of one of the two specially produced concerts was composed of material that the group had performed the last time they were in New York, and whereas they managed to keep a fair amount of control over all that they attempted (not a mean feat considering the potentially excessive nature of their material!), the set they did was still less than inspired.
Organist Richard Wright used the azimuth co-ordinator, a device which shifts the sound around speakers placed all over the hall. Among the numbers performed were "Saucerful Of Secrets," "Astronomy Domine," and "Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun." Somehow I thought they would be more cosmic than they turned out to be.
But nothing could have prepared me for the second half. The Pink Floyd trooped out on stage followed by about ten union horn men (dressed "down" for their gig at the Fillmore!) and a chorus of approximately 20 singers. All of this entourage was fronted by a conductor! They all proceeded to perform a type of rock-classically fused composition that lasted about an hour, and sounded like one of Blood, Sweat and Tears' more ambitious compositions at best. I really feel that if one mixes rock with classical music something more ought to come out of it than merely bad rock or bad classical music.
At heart, I like the Pink Floyd though, and I hope they keep on experimenting. The audience, by the way, enjoyed the show immensely, and were cheering for more at the end of the concert."
According to Povey's/Russel's In The Flesh this was the setlist of both shows:
Astronomy Domine / Green is the Colour / Careful With That Axe, Eugene / Fat Old Sun / Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun / A Saucerful Of Secrets / Atom Heart Mother (with Brass & Choir)
This finds some correspondence on some recording that surfaced during the years. Indeed, if for some "ages" this Fillmore East recording was supposed to exist but turned out systematically mislabeled nerving some collectors quite a lot (I have friends who went crazy trying to find some genuine tapes!) it seems that at some point some genuine tape really surfaced and got spread (by whom I'm trying to find out). But the venture isn't over. It was soon evident that those tapes didn't correspond to any other 70's recording in general circulation but strangely used to fit some 71 tape which turned out as much weird and led us into a labyrinth where I can't still find any Arianna's thread.
This recording supposedly from the early show at the Fillmore was indeed spread also with another date at the same time.: as 1971 November 15 - Carnegie Hall, Manhattan, New York City.
According to Povey's/Russel's In The Flesh this was the setlist of the Carnegie Hall 71 gig:
Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun / Atom Heart Mother / One Of These Days / Careful With That Axe, Eugene / Cymbaline / Echoes
This is a review from Disc magazine that also interviewed the Floyd (taken from Hodges' / Priston's "The Embryo")
"The Audience treated their Carnegie Hall concert this week as if it were almost a religious event. The incredibly loud, spacey music, accompanied by those great sound effects created an Atmosphere that was really cosmic. Pink Floyd played for almost three hours, and despite some minor problems, they were a huge success with a totally sold-out crowd of 2,900 people. [...]"

The 2 versions of the recording (again labeled as both 1971 November 15 - Carnegie Hall and 1970 September 27 - Fillmore East) have usually the same contents, the only difference is the inclusion or lack of One Of These Days, here are some examples of some of the versions I checked:
 

tape labeled 1971 November 15 - Carnegie Hall, New York City

tape labeled 1970 September 27 - Fillmore East, New York City (1)

tape labeled 1970 September 27 - Fillmore East, New York City (2)

tape labeled 1970 September 27 - Fillmore East, New York City (3) released as bonus of "An Amateur Wouldn't Do This" - FA031

tape labeled as just Fillmore East '72 (from a tape traded around 1977, yes, 72!)

tape labeled ??? spread as Carneige Hall 71-11-15 (Neonknight's tape)

The only firm point we have is that OOTD was never performed before the late 71 and that GITC was not performed after the August of 71 according to the archives ... and this is right the point that makes the identification a hard enterprise!
About OOTD:
After a quite accurate check I found that this OoTD performance included in the tapes labeled 1971 November 15 doesn't match any other recording having OoTD in circulation, this doesn't mean it has to be from 71-11-15, but if it doesn't, what's the date of it then?. I have no means to confirm that's the right date, what I'm sure about is that it's a '71 or '72 performance (excluding the last 72 dates) and that it is from a concert performed in the U.S., since the taper says something at the beginning of the song, exactly "Lucifer Sam", and he says that with an American accent.
About AHM (just a fragment):
I doubt it's from the FE 70-09-27 show as well cause there it was performed with orchestra elements and choir, and there's no orchestra or choir in the fragment included in the recording, so may it be from 1971 November 15? Who'll ever know.
Some hint to help identifying a possible recording of the F.E. 70 gig it is given by Waters in person who, during the show at the Pepperland Auditorium in San Rafael (70-10-17), commented about the Fillmore East gig to have been problematic because of technical flaws: after the second power loss at the Pepperland Waters said: "... This happened three times in our first set at Fillmore East a couple of weeks ago. Got quite boring after..."

according to what reported in the page about the 1970 September 27 - Fillmore East recording on Hodges' / Priston's "The Embryo" this might be of some evidence: "While edited, the recording does not exhibit those power-outs, indicating that is likely to be from the second show". But this isn't of any help to me as well, the power failures might have been occurred in whatever part of the show that may be not included in the recording we have. Actually, there are problems during the recording, some power-loss or something I thought might be due to the performance indeed, (the Floyd aren't new to errors during performances after all) although Waters clearly mentions it after AD too: "We...really have just got to find out why all the equipment on this side of the stage keeps stopping...it's a bit boring.". Those problems (evident on AD and CWTAE) and this comment are the evidence the tape is really from F.E. for somepeople, this is the transcription from a tape (not including OoTD) made kindly by Phil Salathe. I still have my doubts about it, doesn't the review of the Carnegie Hall 71 gig mentions problems as well? ("Pink Floyd played for almost three hours, and despite some minor problems, they were a huge success...")
The songs included in the tapes don't help to prove anything in few words, can it be from Fillmore East 70 excluding OoTD and AHM or can it be from Carnegie Hall 71 excluding GITC? It may be from a totally different date even as far as I can guess!
In the end I might just report that it does exist some student interview from 1970 September 28 (reported to be from September 29 - New York City Radio on "The Embryo") sometimes traded together with the recording mentioned above, can it be some proof that the recording is from the day before? also this is just guessing!
 

If somebody believes to have evidences or is able to help with this matter, any suggestion would be very appreciated.

Also  if you ever traded with Mr. Brian Brandt form NY in the 70s and know how to get in touch with him, please let me know cause he might be of some help on this recording.

Disc and Music Echo (early show) review about the Fillmore East 70.09.27 gig:
ELECTRIC PINK FLOYD EMPLOY A CONDUCTOR!
by Lisa Mehlman
(transcribed by Pict)
The Pink Floyd came to the Fillmore East last weekend with an incredible amount of equipment, and I think just a little bit more than the normal amount of nerve!
The first half of one of the two specially produced concerts was composed of material that the group had performed the last time they were in New York, and whereas they managed to keep a fair amount of control over all that they attempted (not a mean feat considering the potentially excessive nature of their material!), the set they did was still less than inspired.
Organist Richard Wright used the azimuth co-ordinator, a device which shifts the sound around speakers placed all over the hall. Among the numbers performed were "Saucerful Of Secrets," "Astronomy Domine," and "Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun." Somehow I thought they would be more cosmic than they turned out to be.
But nothing could have prepared me for the second half. The Pink Floyd trooped out on stage followed by about ten union horn men (dressed "down" for their gig at the Fillmore!) and a chorus of approximately 20 singers. All of this entourage was fronted by a conductor! They all proceeded to perform a type of rock-classically fused composition that lasted about an hour, and sounded like one of Blood, Sweat and Tears' more ambitious compositions at best. I really feel that if one mixes rock with classical music something more ought to come out of it than merely bad rock or bad classical music.
At heart, I like the Pink Floyd though, and I hope they keep on experimenting. The audience, by the way, enjoyed the show immensely, and were cheering for more at the end of the concert.
 

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